Updates in red when you scroll down:)
Before the question, there was a lot more detail regarding the specifics of the dog owner's situation. This is a dog owned by the same family since puppy hood. The dog has just bitten someone, while be pack walked as part of their rehabilitation or an attempt to get a less fearful dog (not with the owner but with a dog walker or trainer). The standard type of obedience sounds like it was done before, perhaps without an eye towards results or knowledge passed on that results and goals are a good thing to have in training.
I am just going for the meat of the question here, because in general, this would be a question that owner's of a particular temperament of dog would have:
"if you have had any luck in curing “fear aggression” with dogs using your residency training program or in any other way?"
My answer follows. You may note that if my goal is sales it is not the best response:) My goal is to help dogs and owners who want to improve their relations with their dogs. I want to do this without putting pressure on dog owner's to impulsively throw money at the situation. Why? Because throwing money at the situation will absolutely 100% fail if that is the only thing done.
With that in mind, here was my response:
"Improvement in the dog can be made. The owner always needs to be aware and know who their dog is in the long term however. Some dogs get over it, and some dogs do not. Basic obedience trained to a standard gives the owner a way to communicate other things to do rather than to rush at a stranger, if they are consistent, responsible, and able to get over the learning curve.
As far as "curing", it's not like getting a car fixed where something just is replaced with a brand new part. Dogs take variable amounts of time for improvement, and it really depends 1) how damaged the dog is 2) how able the owners are to understand and implement a training program and 3) the ability to work as a partnership in the future by knowing each other and having a level of trust.
Unfortunately, many of these problems can be avoided entirely by starting training, boundaries, and rules early, unless one has a dog that is really not wired right. The lack of training (to a standard, which is important, many trainers do not bother to try to do this with their human clients), rules, and boundaries can influence an otherwise mentally healthy dog to grow up not so mentally healthy.
Good luck. Let me know if you want to investigate further. If you do, please fill out the client information form."
Honestly that is my answer. Improvement is always possible, but is it going to be the improvement that owners' are looking for? Getting an owner into the learning curve regarding trainer and behavior modification is hard enough with a dog that has not yet bitten or shown signs of aggression. It could be totally possible to have this dog enjoying humans some time in the future, but convincing everyone the need for steps to be in place to ensure safety...that is the hard part.
Often, after awhile, clients forget how bad it was, or they remain in denial about their dog. A protocol slips, is forgotten, or just disregarded as the dog "does not need that anymore". Yet the dog still is not prepared for some scenarios, and no real work has been done to prepare them for that particular scenario. BAM! Predictably for those of us who train but not so much for owners, the undesired action is performed by the dog.
This is why much caution is taken before accepting a case like this. There are some screen out things that I have in place, which are designed to off put those who really already know that they may not want to live the lifestyle required to save their dog. I am not pointing fingers here, I totally understand having lived with a couple of dogs that were behaviorally challenged. This is something that I decided to do, and do not expect that others will decide to live the same way.
It is impossible and unethical to re home a dangerous dog. So options in these type of situations are limited. It's a tough situation, and as always, I completely sympathize and support any necessary decisions made in circumstances like this.
Please see these related articles:
Work With The Dog You Have Not With The Dog You Wished You Had
The Resource Guarders
Aggression, Why You Need Help
Selecting A Trainer
So how many dogs I have personally helped through something *like* this? How successful were those cases?
Of the hoods listed, in July of 2008, totalling 14 dogs:
So less than half in 2009-2010. Total of all time being 13 out of 22 = 60% success rate. Also less dogs seen or inquired about during this time. OR it could be that I am screening out more clients. I would say of above, that there are four-five clients that I could have probably screened out. They would not pass my muster right now (though one of those has been a success to date). I have no idea the amount of clients that I have encouraged not to use my services for their problem OR to really think of other options. I guess I should be tracking this as well.
Talking about strictly residency cases, 8 out of 10 have been successful in all time. 80 % or redidency cases from 2003-2010 have been successful. Pre 2008, 67% of residency cases had been successful (per my definition) and from 2009-2010 80% of residency cases have been successful.
Residency cases, especially for the behaviorally challenged, can have a bit more success, because the training starts with someone who knows what they are doing on a regular basis. So much up front work can be done for the owner, who can step in once there is a standard built into the training.
Keep in mind we are a teeny tiny operation, who gets about 20 new private training clients a year, plus our returning training clients. We do not do group classes at this point. So we only work with so many dogs as it is. I also suspect in this economy, more dogs who have issues are being PTS as families can not afford the liability or the training. In other words, when the money is a problem, more families have to be really realistic as to what they will spend money on (and what they can realistically do). I don't blame them, and I absolutely love dogs whether they are behaviorally challenged or not.
And it is NOT that I don't want to help these people. It is that unless they are already used to at least working with a non behaviorally challenged dog, these dogs are going to challenge the learning curve for these owners.
It's like saying, you have three weeks to learn the flute (or even three months, or six months) and then I expect you to be good enough to play in the Boston Symphony Orchestra. It sometimes takes many dogs before an owner learns about training, and how to use it effectively. We are talking about dogs that are beyond the skills of an average dog owner. Could they get there? Yeah, they could, if they didn't assume that their dog was "cured" from everything later on. However, without the experience of knowing that by having handled hundreds of dogs, is it likely that this passed on knowledge is going to stick? No, it really is not. It is too easy for owners to be lulled into this false sense of security, and not realize that they have had no incidents because they have been actively using training and safety protocols, and then the guard comes down. Or winter comes, they stop training, and they totally expect everything to have been maintained to the same point.
I know what happens with these dogs, as I make every effort to track them until the dog dies. A lot of the successes often come here for boarding, so I get to see one on one. So my definition of success does not equate to months or years without incident or fall backs, it is forever into their future. I know about these incidents, because I e-mail the owners four or five times during the year for updates. Or I may be actively involved in the rehoming plans. Some of these dogs have been able to bite a lot less or not at all....until the last incident (of the unsuccessful or wait and see cases).
So there are many many factors to consider before going forward with a mind to rehabbing a dog. Take much time to think about all the considerations. If you are just about to get a puppy, start training immediately with an eye towards real goals and standards in training no matter which method you use. You and your puppy will then hopefully never have to come to such an impasse in your relationship.
http://www.mannerlymutts.com/
http://mannerlymutts.blogspot.com/
mannerly_mutt@yahoo.com
Before the question, there was a lot more detail regarding the specifics of the dog owner's situation. This is a dog owned by the same family since puppy hood. The dog has just bitten someone, while be pack walked as part of their rehabilitation or an attempt to get a less fearful dog (not with the owner but with a dog walker or trainer). The standard type of obedience sounds like it was done before, perhaps without an eye towards results or knowledge passed on that results and goals are a good thing to have in training.
I am just going for the meat of the question here, because in general, this would be a question that owner's of a particular temperament of dog would have:
"if you have had any luck in curing “fear aggression” with dogs using your residency training program or in any other way?"
My answer follows. You may note that if my goal is sales it is not the best response:) My goal is to help dogs and owners who want to improve their relations with their dogs. I want to do this without putting pressure on dog owner's to impulsively throw money at the situation. Why? Because throwing money at the situation will absolutely 100% fail if that is the only thing done.
With that in mind, here was my response:
"Improvement in the dog can be made. The owner always needs to be aware and know who their dog is in the long term however. Some dogs get over it, and some dogs do not. Basic obedience trained to a standard gives the owner a way to communicate other things to do rather than to rush at a stranger, if they are consistent, responsible, and able to get over the learning curve.
As far as "curing", it's not like getting a car fixed where something just is replaced with a brand new part. Dogs take variable amounts of time for improvement, and it really depends 1) how damaged the dog is 2) how able the owners are to understand and implement a training program and 3) the ability to work as a partnership in the future by knowing each other and having a level of trust.
Unfortunately, many of these problems can be avoided entirely by starting training, boundaries, and rules early, unless one has a dog that is really not wired right. The lack of training (to a standard, which is important, many trainers do not bother to try to do this with their human clients), rules, and boundaries can influence an otherwise mentally healthy dog to grow up not so mentally healthy.
Good luck. Let me know if you want to investigate further. If you do, please fill out the client information form."
Honestly that is my answer. Improvement is always possible, but is it going to be the improvement that owners' are looking for? Getting an owner into the learning curve regarding trainer and behavior modification is hard enough with a dog that has not yet bitten or shown signs of aggression. It could be totally possible to have this dog enjoying humans some time in the future, but convincing everyone the need for steps to be in place to ensure safety...that is the hard part.
Often, after awhile, clients forget how bad it was, or they remain in denial about their dog. A protocol slips, is forgotten, or just disregarded as the dog "does not need that anymore". Yet the dog still is not prepared for some scenarios, and no real work has been done to prepare them for that particular scenario. BAM! Predictably for those of us who train but not so much for owners, the undesired action is performed by the dog.
This is why much caution is taken before accepting a case like this. There are some screen out things that I have in place, which are designed to off put those who really already know that they may not want to live the lifestyle required to save their dog. I am not pointing fingers here, I totally understand having lived with a couple of dogs that were behaviorally challenged. This is something that I decided to do, and do not expect that others will decide to live the same way.
It is impossible and unethical to re home a dangerous dog. So options in these type of situations are limited. It's a tough situation, and as always, I completely sympathize and support any necessary decisions made in circumstances like this.
Please see these related articles:
Work With The Dog You Have Not With The Dog You Wished You Had
The Resource Guarders
Aggression, Why You Need Help
Selecting A Trainer
So how many dogs I have personally helped through something *like* this? How successful were those cases?
Of the hoods listed, in July of 2008, totalling 14 dogs:
- My own two were successful on that list (Jackie and Neptune).
- Three were re homed. One after partners slit up, and the one left with him re homed in while in a different state. One a family who did not want to train the other dog in the family very much (not the client dog but dog family member who did not really have a behavioral problem so much as she wanted to correct new puppy all the time. New puppy did have behavioral problems, but did a lot less damage than the older resident dog. Tuff situation, but dog found excellent home). One owner fed the dog with the "new puppy" (that they were not supposed to get) right upon returning home without crates or anything.
- One was euthanized. Unfortunately suggested by me, and we did try and find another home for him. He did not have a serious bite history YET, but lived with three toddlers, and had really major aggression problems since he was a puppy. Would have probably turned into a nice obedience or sports dog with the right family.
- One on there, who is a friends dog NOT a training client, is still in the wait and see. We have talked about him a lot, and I have given a lot of advice. Dog has severe joint problems, and was in the vets a lot during early and very critical periods of his life.
- 7 left have been successful plus my two being 9 out of 14 successful on that list. 64% success rate per my definition. Arguably the rehomes could be considered successful, but if the dog comes in for training from their home, my personal goal is to keep that dog in their home. Obviously if that is not the right thing to do, I don't do it, but I do not consider it a successful case if they are re homed.
- Dog A-Good for a year and three months, and just did a backslide. Was allowed to start hanging out on the bed. (S) update tumors were found in the intestines, and treated. he has been a loving part of the family since this was discovered, and has a new dog friend in the house that he loves. this is a dog that has always had serious medical problems.
- Dog B-Two dog family, one was beating up on the other and aggressive to dogs in general. So far very successful for the last thirteen months. (S)
- Dog C-Adopted from shelter who rescued her after she had been tied to a garage for the first two years of her life. She had a litter of pups during this time due to not being able to get away from males (or fixed for that matter). She was abandoned when the rescue was able to step in. Very traumatized as far as interactions with other dogs went, and was pretty aggressive to other dogs. So far very successful for the last thirteen months. (S)
- Dog D-Owned by pregnant lady that gave birth in the middle of the sessions. She had owned for a number of years, and was just now considering training the dog for safety. I am assuming this was unsuccessful, as not all lessons were done, and homework was hardly ever done. It could have been a success as far as she was concerned. I haven't heard from her, so I have no idea. (U) I have heard that this dog is doing great with the baby, and they have not been able to continue training for the dog aggression.
- Dog E-Young puppy displaying aggressive tendencies towards other dogs. Was successful for awhile, but recently owner let dog out of command to greet another dog. Dog was bitten. This is a dog where an introduction protcol is needed, and for those dogs to be serious long time future friends before even considering this. (R) dog was rehomed
- Dog F-Loved his small children. Family not prepared for a large possibly aggressive dog, though he could have been controlled by a more knowledgable family. He was unfortunately returned to the shelter. (R)
- Dog G-Very frightened of other dogs, and likes to get the first aggressive move out of the way. However, does not do this by actually biting or breaking skin. Has been successful, although owner still has trouble reading his dog or implementing training strategy. She improves with both people and dogs every time I see her. (S)
- Dog H-Very large black dog owned as a puppy. Family became afraid of his more mediocre interactions, and then the dog figured this out an progressed. The family was not interested in prolonged training, and the dog was sent to a no kill shelter. (R)
So less than half in 2009-2010. Total of all time being 13 out of 22 = 60% success rate. Also less dogs seen or inquired about during this time. OR it could be that I am screening out more clients. I would say of above, that there are four-five clients that I could have probably screened out. They would not pass my muster right now (though one of those has been a success to date). I have no idea the amount of clients that I have encouraged not to use my services for their problem OR to really think of other options. I guess I should be tracking this as well.
Talking about strictly residency cases, 8 out of 10 have been successful in all time. 80 % or redidency cases from 2003-2010 have been successful. Pre 2008, 67% of residency cases had been successful (per my definition) and from 2009-2010 80% of residency cases have been successful.
Residency cases, especially for the behaviorally challenged, can have a bit more success, because the training starts with someone who knows what they are doing on a regular basis. So much up front work can be done for the owner, who can step in once there is a standard built into the training.
Keep in mind we are a teeny tiny operation, who gets about 20 new private training clients a year, plus our returning training clients. We do not do group classes at this point. So we only work with so many dogs as it is. I also suspect in this economy, more dogs who have issues are being PTS as families can not afford the liability or the training. In other words, when the money is a problem, more families have to be really realistic as to what they will spend money on (and what they can realistically do). I don't blame them, and I absolutely love dogs whether they are behaviorally challenged or not.
And it is NOT that I don't want to help these people. It is that unless they are already used to at least working with a non behaviorally challenged dog, these dogs are going to challenge the learning curve for these owners.
It's like saying, you have three weeks to learn the flute (or even three months, or six months) and then I expect you to be good enough to play in the Boston Symphony Orchestra. It sometimes takes many dogs before an owner learns about training, and how to use it effectively. We are talking about dogs that are beyond the skills of an average dog owner. Could they get there? Yeah, they could, if they didn't assume that their dog was "cured" from everything later on. However, without the experience of knowing that by having handled hundreds of dogs, is it likely that this passed on knowledge is going to stick? No, it really is not. It is too easy for owners to be lulled into this false sense of security, and not realize that they have had no incidents because they have been actively using training and safety protocols, and then the guard comes down. Or winter comes, they stop training, and they totally expect everything to have been maintained to the same point.
I know what happens with these dogs, as I make every effort to track them until the dog dies. A lot of the successes often come here for boarding, so I get to see one on one. So my definition of success does not equate to months or years without incident or fall backs, it is forever into their future. I know about these incidents, because I e-mail the owners four or five times during the year for updates. Or I may be actively involved in the rehoming plans. Some of these dogs have been able to bite a lot less or not at all....until the last incident (of the unsuccessful or wait and see cases).
So there are many many factors to consider before going forward with a mind to rehabbing a dog. Take much time to think about all the considerations. If you are just about to get a puppy, start training immediately with an eye towards real goals and standards in training no matter which method you use. You and your puppy will then hopefully never have to come to such an impasse in your relationship.
http://www.mannerlymutts.com/
http://mannerlymutts.blogspot.com/
mannerly_mutt@yahoo.com
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